I think the mosque is a perfect way to tell the world we are not as ignorant previously believed. Most of us do not believe all Muslims are terrorists in the same way that not all Christians are terrorists.
To you and the others who think it is just a fanatical group of extremists in Islam and that Christianity also has the same.Churches are open to "whosoever will" and even broadcast their services by radio and TV. Have you ever heard of Islamic services being open to the public? We have allready heard of what some of their leaders have been teaching here in America. These so called culture centers are no more than training centers for jihad in America. America wake up!
I sell convience from store to you American and want to chop off all your head one day. you infidels all of you and allah will reward my stankin azz one day!
Here is a solution....White people go back to Europe, African-Americans go back to Africa(did not come here by choice anyway), and leave this land to its rightful owners, the Native Americans...Slavery was upheld in the name of Christanity, were the slaveowners terrorists? Terrorists exist in all religions, especially in Christanity...White people have terrorized African Americans for years in the name of their so called religion, even burned the cross...Islam is a religion of peace, but just like any other religion, some will do some deadly things in its name...Timothy McVeigh, our own homegrown terrorist, was a Christian, supposedly...lets quit being judgemental...we live in a country where the president has a jewish first name, muslim middle name, and african last name...a sign from God, that only he is in control...
I will get to stay in America since I am of Cherokee heritage :)
The American people now are so full of hatred. Our children are brought up to be disrespectful and lazy. American daughters are pumping out welfare babies in which will grow up to pump out more welfare babies. Our children are killing each other in gangs, hate crimes and over drugs.
a-men ! what a shame to all who suffered in this country, because of 9-11! What In the Hell(sorry) is wrong with us in that we would allow this to happen? This is a SHAME!
What an ignorant bigot. Blaming all muslams for the 9/11 attacks because the perpetrators did it "in the name of Islam" is about as intelligent and reasonable as blaming all white people for the cross the KKK sets ablaze in the name of "white purity". How obtuse can one really be? I'm no muslim, but it's a shame such ignorant hatred finds an outlet in the media.
OK, let um build it,then during one of their five prayer sessions during the day, fly a plane into it.
And hey#4 muslims cannot be trusted,that's the way I feel and I will always feel that way.It is the goal of the radical muslim to kill as many non-muslim people as possible,,,,even you!!!
..."The imam behind the project says it will "bridge the great divide" between Muslims and the rest of America. Bull. It's making the divide worse."...
Nonsense... It's not making the divide worse. Terrorists that hide behind the Muslim (or any other) religion and prejudiced people that hide behind patriotism and/or various religious views are "making the divide worse". They did this before 9/11 and they still do today.
I KNOW AMERICANS THAT HAVE BEEN TRYING TO OWN A BUISNESS FOR YEARS BUT AS SOON AS A MIDDLE EASTERN PERSON GETS HERE THEY OWN A CONVIENCE STORE, DAIRY QUEEN, OR BLIMPIE. THESE GUYS ARE UP TO NO GOOD!
Who will build the structure? Were will they get the building materials . I cant see the NYC Local Trade Unions working on this project
or allowing none union workers in. The NYC and Federal Goverments are allowing this project
but who will do the work? Who will deliver the
building materials? Stand together as American
Union Workers throught out the country and
there will be no building.
Here are some comments on PCJ -
It is time to bridge the great divide. Time to love thou brother. Time to put all the hate behind us and move forward. Let them have their mosque and freedom to worship. Remember our president is Muslim.
I think the mosque is a perfect way to tell the world we are not as ignorant previously believed. We do not believe all Muslims are terrorists in the same way that not all Christians are terrorists.
Here is my reply --
you people are crazy to support this. What if someone killed your CHILD or other family member and others wanted to put up a monument, memorial, etc to idolize the person that KILLED YOUR CHILD?? Would you still AGREE with this??!!
I can't believe some poeple in the USA.
That being said, I hope all the people that alllow this will be voted out of office. And I hope that if this thing is built that they are the FIRST ones that these terrorists will take out.
These crazy people in USA who agree with this wants TOLERANCE? Peace with other nations/ religions, etc? Do YOU think that THESE people will tolerate USA?? Surely you can't believe thta these terrorists will be loving toward USA and NOT take them out.
IDIOTS.
Can this be stopped somehow? Can the public show outrage and stop this??
I dont' know, the country is like communism and the gov't does what it wants to no matter what WE THE PEOPLE want!!
MORE IDIOTS !!
To #2 pike patriot, do YOU think the MUSLIMS will put the HATE behind THEM??
"Therefore grant a delay to the Unbelievers: Give respite to them gently (for awhile)." -Sura 86:17
Therefore, let's let their "holy book," the Koran instruct us whether Islam is a religion of peace and whether it promotes a murderous Jihad.
"O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" -Sura 9:28-30
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement," -Sura 5:33
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." -Sura 9:5
Surly a man such as yourself knows the dangers of removing verses out of context or "cherry-picking" and not considering the historical context in which it was written and should be interpreted. Have you read the Old Testament?
I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.--Zech.11:9
Exodus 7:4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
The killer of 911 wasn’t religion but extremism. It was fanaticism to the point that nothing else mattered in the world except one’s theological belief system. They believed theirs to be the only true God. All else was considered evil. Along with the economic interest to exploit such exclusion we had 911. I see this fault in many theologies including Christianity. Many chose to worship the Gods of the past when our salvation is in the God of tomorrow. We should always consider not what God is, but what God could or would be that enables us to become one with humanity. One power by many names.
Rabbi Justus N. BairdDirector, Center for Multifaith Education, Auburn Theological Seminary
..These concerns take on a special urgency on Memorial Day: how exactly can we remember and honor those who were killed? As a rabbi, I'd like to offer two things that seem to be missing from the now public discussion of Cordoba House: a pastoral voice, and a piece of wisdom from the past.
First, a pastoral voice. To some of those who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks, Cordoba House is a slap in the face that generates anger and disgust. In their mind, Muslims perpetrated 9/11, and now Muslims are building a shrine at Ground Zero.
These 9/11 families understand intellectually that the progressive American Muslims advocating for Cordoba House have no connection, theologically or personally, to the terror-thirsty, militant strand of Islam associated with the 9/11 attackers. Yet, for them, these two diametrically opposed groups are still connected in some way. In an honest moment, most Americans would admit that we share this feeling that all Muslims are connected. Muslim theologians would agree: the ummat al-mu'minin is the "community of believers" that make up the Muslim world. So let's acknowledge that while the followers of Cordoba House and the followers of al-Qaeda have radically different visions of Islam, they are both part of the Muslim world.
The other clear concern in these voices is that Ground Zero, and arguably the area around it, is sacred ground. My loved ones died here, they are reminding us. Be very, very careful where you walk.
But what are the boundaries of this sacred site? The architecture of the Biblical Tabernacle is instructive here. The holiest place was the Ark of the Covenant. Surrounding it was the Holy of Holies, and beyond that was the holy place with the altar, table, and lampstand, and beyond that was the outer court, and beyond that was a fence. Sacredness was safeguarded by a series of boundaries.
These voices are crying out to discuss the sacred boundaries of Ground Zero. Cordoba House is two blocks away, a three-minute walk. Is that inside or outside the invisible fence? And who determines what is sacred? To Muslims, many of whom died in the 9/11 attacks, a mosque is a deeply sacred space.
Only by acknowledging and addressing these concerns will the storm swirling around Cordoba House be abated. That's the pastoral voice. Now the wisdom from the past. It is sad but true that people around the world have experienced their own versions of 9/11. Lurking in the aftermath of the world's worst moments of murder and injustice is a precious piece of wisdom.
The International Coalition of Sites of Conscience is a worldwide network of nearly 250 places of memory that remember tragedies as well as triumphs of justice and everyday life. These sites open their spaces for people to talk openly about what happened there and their contemporary legacies.
One such Site of Conscience is Constitution Hill in Johannesburg. In the 1990s, South Africa decided to redevelop the Old Fort Prison that jailed political prisoners like Mandela and Gandhi alongside those who transgressed now-illegal apartheid laws. The Justices of the Constitutional Court deliberately chose to erect the new court in the shadow of the prison in order to learn from the history of a place that once symbolized the abrogation of justice. From the soil of terror would rise a safehouse of justice.
Before the site was redeveloped, a series of dialogues was conducted with various stakeholders, including former prisoners and guards, who described their personal experiences and talked openly about what happened there. The community's input shaped the design of the Constitution Hill complex, including a provision for office space for nonprofits to pursue justice. Without these dialogues, Constitution Hill might never have become what it is today: a place offering ongoing public discussions about how, in light of the past, justice should be defined in the new South Africa.
Another example is Memoria Abierta (Open Memory) in Buenos Aires. For decades, Argentine dictators sponsored violent kidnappings and torture. The terror claimed an estimated 30,000 lives, people who became known simply as "the disappeared." Open Memory has worked to identify hundreds of detention centers and torture sites and mark them as places that preserve memory and denounce authoritarianism. One such site, a former Naval Academy, set off a protracted disagreement among stakeholders, including different victims' groups. Open Memory held a series of forums among victims groups and state authorities, which has allowed the site to be opened in a series of smaller steps. The open dialogues continue today.
The parallel between these sites and Cordoba House is imperfect; Cordoba House is not intended to be a memorial to 9/11. Yet these stories contain wisdom: any development on or near the sacred ground of collective trauma must begin with listening and dialogue.
Cordoba House's founders have started the dialogue, which is why the local Community Board recently backed the proposal. But the dialogue needs to go broader and deeper. At a minimum it must include more families touched by 9/11 (some of whom strongly support the proposal), more nearby residents, and all of us who have trouble distinguishing a Cordoba House Muslim from an al-Qaeda Muslim.
Cordoba House should be built. Right now, however, Ground Zero has too many graves and too few relationships between Muslim-Americans and Americans of other faiths for the project to reach its full potential. By launching a series of community dialogues before the site is developed, Cordoba House can get an early start on becoming a vibrant and world-class facility that promotes tolerance and pluralism.
To all of you people that think Muslims are forgiving, and understanding- What the hell are you people taking that makes you think the religion of Islam is peaceful?
Extremist or not-- there are three rules the Koran expresses to a true believer.
Read # 12 He is telling you exactly what they think, because these people are taught, from birth, to hate all that do not think, and believe exactly what this book preaches. Cut your hands and feet off- imprison you, tax you, enslave you, or kill your dumb ass.
There are too many people that are trying to be political correct, and it is time to throw it out the window and the people that preach this huggy- kissy crap with it.
How on Gods green earth can you people that want to embrace this mosque and the people that are lying to you,about the reasoning behind building the damn thing at ground zero. The only reason for building it there is to make a statement that the bombing was a success and we are on the path of destroying the Evil Satin, AND ALL HERE THAT WILL NOT CONFORM, and you will conform or die. They want to change the way you worship, think, they want to bring Sharia Law to the United States. For your information (the touchy feely crowd) there are now 800 court rooms that dispense Sharia law, run by Muslims, and punishment carried out, by Muslims with no input from elected officials from the gov. in Great Britain. Look it up stupid before you kiss these peoples butt and give them a free hand to to spread in this country like our allies have in theirs. Can you imagine help from Great Britten in a few years after the Muslims start getting involved in politics---I don' think so, you are an idiot if you do.
I think the only reason that you people in this area, support these people, you are a muslim to begin with and are lying about your reasoning or you are the most uninformed people here in this county or where-ever you are from. Speakers from the Muslim countries have said openly--I pray for the destruction of the United States and kill all that do not conform. What part of kill you,do you not understand? This means you, touchy-feely bunch also
I am sure there are peace loving Muslims in this country but the danger is too great to spread any more of their ideas. The ones here are not vocal enough to suit me. Very seldom do you here any Muslim group condemn any action of terror because they are scared to death the extreme ones will make them or their family disappear, especially if they have family over there.
Wake up people before they have such a toe-hold we will never be able to get rid of them without a fight in the streets. I hope and pray we come to our senses before it is too late. You really do need to think this over if you think giving them a mosque at the sight where they(Muslims) killed just shy of 3000 of us in the name of Islam. That piece loving religion.
I have read and studied about the Crusades. It was wrong then to butcher and it is still wrong to butcher innocence now. Knights then had the blessing of the Pope to plunder and use religion to kill.
I am talking about now, not then. Just remember that religion has been the cause of more deaths that any other subject I can think of. I still do not want this religion to take hold in my country and spread like mold in a damp basement. It would be different if they(Muslims ) did not want to convert everyone by any means necessary--even your death if you do not tow the line.
I need to make a correction on the number of Sharia courts in Great Britain. I guess my fingers were a little quick.
There are 80 not 800. Double dip on the 0.
sorry about that.
The American people now are so full of hatred. Our children are brought up to be disrespectful and lazy. American daughters are pumping out welfare babies in which will grow up to pump out more welfare babies. Our children are killing each other in gangs, hate crimes and over drugs.
And hey#4 muslims cannot be trusted,that's the way I feel and I will always feel that way.It is the goal of the radical muslim to kill as many non-muslim people as possible,,,,even you!!!
Nonsense... It's not making the divide worse. Terrorists that hide behind the Muslim (or any other) religion and prejudiced people that hide behind patriotism and/or various religious views are "making the divide worse". They did this before 9/11 and they still do today.
I know many Americans who are self employed.
or allowing none union workers in. The NYC and Federal Goverments are allowing this project
but who will do the work? Who will deliver the
building materials? Stand together as American
Union Workers throught out the country and
there will be no building.
It is time to bridge the great divide. Time to love thou brother. Time to put all the hate behind us and move forward. Let them have their mosque and freedom to worship. Remember our president is Muslim.
I think the mosque is a perfect way to tell the world we are not as ignorant previously believed. We do not believe all Muslims are terrorists in the same way that not all Christians are terrorists.
Here is my reply --
you people are crazy to support this. What if someone killed your CHILD or other family member and others wanted to put up a monument, memorial, etc to idolize the person that KILLED YOUR CHILD?? Would you still AGREE with this??!!
I can't believe some poeple in the USA.
That being said, I hope all the people that alllow this will be voted out of office. And I hope that if this thing is built that they are the FIRST ones that these terrorists will take out.
These crazy people in USA who agree with this wants TOLERANCE? Peace with other nations/ religions, etc? Do YOU think that THESE people will tolerate USA?? Surely you can't believe thta these terrorists will be loving toward USA and NOT take them out.
IDIOTS.
Can this be stopped somehow? Can the public show outrage and stop this??
I dont' know, the country is like communism and the gov't does what it wants to no matter what WE THE PEOPLE want!!
MORE IDIOTS !!
To #2 pike patriot, do YOU think the MUSLIMS will put the HATE behind THEM??
"Therefore grant a delay to the Unbelievers: Give respite to them gently (for awhile)." -Sura 86:17
Therefore, let's let their "holy book," the Koran instruct us whether Islam is a religion of peace and whether it promotes a murderous Jihad.
"O you who believe! the idolaters are nothing but unclean, so they shall not approach the Sacred Mosque after this year; and if you fear poverty then Allah will enrich you out of His grace if He please; surely Allah is Knowing Wise. Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection. And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!" -Sura 9:28-30
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement," -Sura 5:33
"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful." -Sura 9:5
I will not feed you: that that dieth, let it die; and that that is to be cut off, let it be cut off; and let the rest eat every one the flesh of another.--Zech.11:9
Exodus 7:4 But Pharaoh shall not hearken unto you, that I may lay my hand upon Egypt, and bring forth mine armies, and my people the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt by great judgments.
There are many many more of these.
..These concerns take on a special urgency on Memorial Day: how exactly can we remember and honor those who were killed? As a rabbi, I'd like to offer two things that seem to be missing from the now public discussion of Cordoba House: a pastoral voice, and a piece of wisdom from the past.
First, a pastoral voice. To some of those who lost loved ones in the 9/11 attacks, Cordoba House is a slap in the face that generates anger and disgust. In their mind, Muslims perpetrated 9/11, and now Muslims are building a shrine at Ground Zero.
These 9/11 families understand intellectually that the progressive American Muslims advocating for Cordoba House have no connection, theologically or personally, to the terror-thirsty, militant strand of Islam associated with the 9/11 attackers. Yet, for them, these two diametrically opposed groups are still connected in some way. In an honest moment, most Americans would admit that we share this feeling that all Muslims are connected. Muslim theologians would agree: the ummat al-mu'minin is the "community of believers" that make up the Muslim world. So let's acknowledge that while the followers of Cordoba House and the followers of al-Qaeda have radically different visions of Islam, they are both part of the Muslim world.
The other clear concern in these voices is that Ground Zero, and arguably the area around it, is sacred ground. My loved ones died here, they are reminding us. Be very, very careful where you walk.
But what are the boundaries of this sacred site? The architecture of the Biblical Tabernacle is instructive here. The holiest place was the Ark of the Covenant. Surrounding it was the Holy of Holies, and beyond that was the holy place with the altar, table, and lampstand, and beyond that was the outer court, and beyond that was a fence. Sacredness was safeguarded by a series of boundaries.
These voices are crying out to discuss the sacred boundaries of Ground Zero. Cordoba House is two blocks away, a three-minute walk. Is that inside or outside the invisible fence? And who determines what is sacred? To Muslims, many of whom died in the 9/11 attacks, a mosque is a deeply sacred space.
Only by acknowledging and addressing these concerns will the storm swirling around Cordoba House be abated. That's the pastoral voice. Now the wisdom from the past. It is sad but true that people around the world have experienced their own versions of 9/11. Lurking in the aftermath of the world's worst moments of murder and injustice is a precious piece of wisdom.
The International Coalition of Sites of Conscience is a worldwide network of nearly 250 places of memory that remember tragedies as well as triumphs of justice and everyday life. These sites open their spaces for people to talk openly about what happened there and their contemporary legacies.
One such Site of Conscience is Constitution Hill in Johannesburg. In the 1990s, South Africa decided to redevelop the Old Fort Prison that jailed political prisoners like Mandela and Gandhi alongside those who transgressed now-illegal apartheid laws. The Justices of the Constitutional Court deliberately chose to erect the new court in the shadow of the prison in order to learn from the history of a place that once symbolized the abrogation of justice. From the soil of terror would rise a safehouse of justice.
Before the site was redeveloped, a series of dialogues was conducted with various stakeholders, including former prisoners and guards, who described their personal experiences and talked openly about what happened there. The community's input shaped the design of the Constitution Hill complex, including a provision for office space for nonprofits to pursue justice. Without these dialogues, Constitution Hill might never have become what it is today: a place offering ongoing public discussions about how, in light of the past, justice should be defined in the new South Africa.
Another example is Memoria Abierta (Open Memory) in Buenos Aires. For decades, Argentine dictators sponsored violent kidnappings and torture. The terror claimed an estimated 30,000 lives, people who became known simply as "the disappeared." Open Memory has worked to identify hundreds of detention centers and torture sites and mark them as places that preserve memory and denounce authoritarianism. One such site, a former Naval Academy, set off a protracted disagreement among stakeholders, including different victims' groups. Open Memory held a series of forums among victims groups and state authorities, which has allowed the site to be opened in a series of smaller steps. The open dialogues continue today.
The parallel between these sites and Cordoba House is imperfect; Cordoba House is not intended to be a memorial to 9/11. Yet these stories contain wisdom: any development on or near the sacred ground of collective trauma must begin with listening and dialogue.
Cordoba House's founders have started the dialogue, which is why the local Community Board recently backed the proposal. But the dialogue needs to go broader and deeper. At a minimum it must include more families touched by 9/11 (some of whom strongly support the proposal), more nearby residents, and all of us who have trouble distinguishing a Cordoba House Muslim from an al-Qaeda Muslim.
Cordoba House should be built. Right now, however, Ground Zero has too many graves and too few relationships between Muslim-Americans and Americans of other faiths for the project to reach its full potential. By launching a series of community dialogues before the site is developed, Cordoba House can get an early start on becoming a vibrant and world-class facility that promotes tolerance and pluralism.
Extremist or not-- there are three rules the Koran expresses to a true believer.
Read # 12 He is telling you exactly what they think, because these people are taught, from birth, to hate all that do not think, and believe exactly what this book preaches. Cut your hands and feet off- imprison you, tax you, enslave you, or kill your dumb ass.
There are too many people that are trying to be political correct, and it is time to throw it out the window and the people that preach this huggy- kissy crap with it.
How on Gods green earth can you people that want to embrace this mosque and the people that are lying to you,about the reasoning behind building the damn thing at ground zero. The only reason for building it there is to make a statement that the bombing was a success and we are on the path of destroying the Evil Satin, AND ALL HERE THAT WILL NOT CONFORM, and you will conform or die. They want to change the way you worship, think, they want to bring Sharia Law to the United States. For your information (the touchy feely crowd) there are now 800 court rooms that dispense Sharia law, run by Muslims, and punishment carried out, by Muslims with no input from elected officials from the gov. in Great Britain. Look it up stupid before you kiss these peoples butt and give them a free hand to to spread in this country like our allies have in theirs. Can you imagine help from Great Britten in a few years after the Muslims start getting involved in politics---I don' think so, you are an idiot if you do.
I think the only reason that you people in this area, support these people, you are a muslim to begin with and are lying about your reasoning or you are the most uninformed people here in this county or where-ever you are from. Speakers from the Muslim countries have said openly--I pray for the destruction of the United States and kill all that do not conform. What part of kill you,do you not understand? This means you, touchy-feely bunch also
I am sure there are peace loving Muslims in this country but the danger is too great to spread any more of their ideas. The ones here are not vocal enough to suit me. Very seldom do you here any Muslim group condemn any action of terror because they are scared to death the extreme ones will make them or their family disappear, especially if they have family over there.
Wake up people before they have such a toe-hold we will never be able to get rid of them without a fight in the streets. I hope and pray we come to our senses before it is too late. You really do need to think this over if you think giving them a mosque at the sight where they(Muslims) killed just shy of 3000 of us in the name of Islam. That piece loving religion.
I am talking about now, not then. Just remember that religion has been the cause of more deaths that any other subject I can think of. I still do not want this religion to take hold in my country and spread like mold in a damp basement. It would be different if they(Muslims ) did not want to convert everyone by any means necessary--even your death if you do not tow the line.
There are 80 not 800. Double dip on the 0.
sorry about that.