Accused killer Frenchie Fambro has been released from the Lamar County jail after a Thursday morning hearing in which chief magistrate William Thomas dismissed his murder charge.
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If you took the time to read the article you would see that the magistrate did not fine the evidence presented by the police sufficient enough to hold Mr. Fambro on murder charges. It went on to say that the police do have the option to make a case for a lesser manslaughter charge. I have not seen what evidence was presented and the judge did and I would hope that if I were ever accused of a crime and the police didn't have sufficient evidence the judge would see fit to dismiss the charges as well. What I have heard about the case is that Mr. Stepanski approached Mr. Fambro's vehicle in a threatening manner and actually climbed in the driver's side window and physically assaulted him i.e. had his hands about his throat. This is when the first shot was fired. Heresay, I know, but, if true, self defense in my eyes. The story, however, goes on to say Mr. Fambro exited the parking lot in his vehicle only to return and shoot Mr. Stepanski again. Again, heresay, but if true, the police should seek voluntary manslaughter charges on these premises.
Better for them to get this thing right now than to go to trial with insufficient evidence and cost the taxpayers a bunch of money for a jury to let him go when presented the insufficient evidence in court a la the tot killing mom in Flordia.
Well said.
Once one gets over the shock of seeing that Fambro was freed, and goes deeper into the article, one sees that this case is probably not over yet.
Then why did the judge find the evidence sufficient enough to issue the origional warrant? Its most likely the same information right? So one minute there is evidence and then the next minute he decides there is not. How freaking stupid. Thats on the judge...that is who should be questioned in my opinion. It is the same judge, I think.
Someone help me understand how Milam comes into play. Does he get involved after the warrant was signed and Frenchie was arrested, or does he see the evidence before it is presented to the judge to obtain the warrant?
Were you there? Did you hear the evidence? Me either. So what you are saying is in the case of self defense, you would do nothing? Hope you never have to defend yourself.
I grew up with Frenchie and I am glad to know he is free. He is a good man. The real idiot is the young man who thought he was a bad-ass and came up short in the end.
Well! Look out, times are changing and Barnesville is in for it now. It only takes one case to change people's thinking. Everyone will come to Barnesville now and murder someone just cause they had an arguement with someone. I think it is time to move out of this little ole town and find someplace safer.
I'm ready! Will you buy me a bus ticket too? I'm really poor and oBUMa won't send me another unemployment check. Where can we go where there aren't flash mobs of thug "students" beating, robbing, raping, stealing and murdering folks? Does Greyhound have a route to Antartica? I don't believe the penguins have roving murderous gangs with cellphones and Tweeting to Facebook and texting when they flatfoot waddle ...YET!
Your right the mood inBarnesville is getting very "dark" indeed.
#9
A family member of Christopher
on
09/08/11 at 08:55 PM
Our family will make sure we get an attorney, and get case sent to another county and judge...I promise you all this is far from over! This is a huge family and we will all be sitting in the court room when a jury trials Frenchie! The justice system is pathetic! How in the world can you shoot someone in your car and they take off running then you get out and shoot them twice in the heart while they are laying down!!!! We love you chris and justice will be served even if it takes years and lots of tax dollars! You are worth all of it! We love and miss him so much!
Do you Not think they can tell where this man was shot? The autopsy findings will show the angle of the bullets and how many times he was shot. I think when the evidence is presented to a jury, they will be able to tell what is hearsay and what is fact, based on evidence. I have heard about 20 different stories of the incident, and I really think most of it is hearsay. I do think Judge Thomas is an idiot for releasing Frenchie and causing all of the hysteria and finger pointing. I think both Frenchie and Chris have caused their own problems and a Jury should figure it out....based on evidence. Not on what all of their friends, family members, and armchair lawyers say.
Judge Thomas do you have a clue what you are doing? How much was you paid to release him?
You are a real joke, and no clue what you are doing...Oh I forgot to said when you ran for re-election our Magistrate court is in good hands...Well who's hands is the court in Satan him self. WOW..what a joke....
I dont know what else to say, but I think Luther could do a better job then you.
Do us all a favor and resign or retire, but our Magistrate court is not in good hands.
Sounds like the kinfolk of the previous magistrate are still holding a grudge because she got beat by the better man. Judge Thomas is an excellent jurist and will hold that position as long as he wishes to. Get over it.
You people kill me (figuratively speaking). You hear one person takes the life of another and you instantly think MURDER. The truth is, none of us know the facts of the case. Obviously the magistrate read the facts, as provided by the investigation team and, in his best interpretation of the law, deemed there was insufficient evidence to hold the assailant on murder charges. If, as stated above, the victim had in fact entered the assailants vehicle in a threatening manner and physically assaulted him, the assailant then had every right to defend himself as his vehicle, by law, is considered to be an extension of his home. No malice murder there. Self defense. However, if, as again stated above, the assailant returned and shot the man again after he was down, there could, should and probably will be a case for voluntary manslaughter. Often times, we jump to conclusions as seems to be the case with the local police department and its investagation team. Not taking a shot at our boys in blue, but it is what is it and sometimes things just aren't what they seem. Tragic? Sure. A life was lost. Another life is changed. But in this case, in my opinion, the magistrate did the right thing. Now it's up to the police to get it right as they do have another chance.
#11.1
Family of Christopher
on
09/09/11 at 10:25 AM
Sounds like our men in blue were not prepared for the trial with the evidence they needed! :( very sad
sounds to me like the evidence didn't support the initial charge of murder. The victim of was not so innocent. He is a victim of his lifestyle. He chose a lifestyle that sent him down the road to a violent death. He could have chosen to keep his mouth shut, to not follow Frenchie to his car, to not attack Frenchie while he was in his car, but he didn't. He chose to keep running his mouth, to follow Frenchie to his car, and to attack Frenchie while he was in his car. He didn't know that Frenchie would be prepared to defend himself. Unfortunately, we humans are not bulletproof. Not even when we are under the influence, although being so, makes us think we are. This victim paid the ultimate price for the lifestyle he chose. Had his priorities been in order, and he been at home with his family, then they wouldn't be grieving his loss right now.
I don't think Frenchie should walk free because he could have stopped after the first shot, but a lesser charge of manslaughter is more fitting in this situation.
Sorry but Thomas doesn't read the facts. He just goes by what he thinks he knows and just decides with certain ones. Let's just hope he doesn't get bac in office. One day he will release the wrong person and something will happen. We have this til things changes. Think about this when it is time to vote for a new Magistrate Judge.
Yeah murder is murder. But I'll bet if you shot someone in self-defense you would want to be free also! I don't think this guy should be charged at all.
The family is and will be making sure this case is not over. Chris was and is worth a jury trial. We need to send this case to a higher court and know that we will have a lawyer and lots of people standing behind us. How can anyone say this was self defense when chris didn't have a weapon other than his two bare hands.Frenchie you shot him and then got out and shot him a few more times in his bare chest while he was laying on the ground... That's cold blood there!
It was self defense and I would have shot that guy too if he came up to my car and tried to break in and start a fight. I'm white and not a thug or redneck.
Being a Christian, this court system is not the HIGHER COURT and I'm not dismissing anything Mr. Frambro has done, but he has to answer for what he has done. Don't allow bitterness to consume you. We all have to answer and just because man says one thing, in the end its about what does the LORD say.. We all have to answer on the other side for things done and EVERY idle word spoken. It does not matter who the victim was or what he has done he was still a person. Right changes depending upon which side of the table you sit, man has a tendency to do that..But thank GOD I have a savior in Heaven whose word never changes...Instead of fighting my friend, put your hands down and pray for the recently departed that the LORD receives in HIM in HEAVEN....I say this in no defense to one side or the other but SOULS are more precious than any amount of hurt we may be feeling. Be blessed and Be in Peace...
Ok i thought self defense was when you defended yourself RIGHT when the fight breaks out which in this case there was NO fight or NO argument so how is this self defense?Evidence or no evidence, he pulled up opened the door, shot the man, not 1, but FOUR TIMES and sped off... this was premeditated murder. Idiots.
This will not change the town that has been a part of my whole life which i love so much. the truth is the wrong guy was shot, go to town and listen to the trash that walks around all day thinking there bad and in reality they are stupid drunks and drug heads. i have one thing to say this will not change my town and for the ones that think they can shoot and yell self defense while your in your car with it running i hope you are quicker!! history repeats itself!
This makes me sick. 1 shot = self defense. more shots after the original altercation is over=murder! Chris may not have been popular, but he was a loved husband and a loved father. A husband/father that was run down and shot multiple times. How can you say self defense when someone is running away from you? Where is justice?
I would have shot more times too if someone was trying to attack me. Just like if someone breaks into your home. I'm gonna empty a clip into that person.
if chris wouldnt have been talkin s**** an makin racial aligations ti begin with then yourbeloved chris wouldnt have had nothin to run from chris was threatning frenchie because of his race so frenchie took his life from him. chris brought it on hisself it was a equal trade
How in the WORLD can you say that is an equal trade! Chris cannot come back....Frenchie is walking the beloved streets of Barnesville. You are about as ignorant as they come. BTW....if you are gonna make stupid statements, you might want to buy a dictionary!
I do not know either of these men so I don't know if they are good, bad, crazy, or drug addicts/alcoholics. I do know that one man had a gun and fired it multiple times at another man, who subsequently died as a result of the gunshot wounds. Regardless of why this occurred, I think that the Magistrate Judge had a moral and ethical obligation to bound this case over to Superior Court. He has now released a man who, for whatever reason, fired a gun and killed a person. It seems reasonable to think that by releasing this man, the Magistrate Judge has now placed another person in immediate danger of retaliatory violence/murder. I truly believe this was a very bad and irresponsible call.
I totally agree. If the Judge is so sure that it was self-defense...........does he not have faith in our (and his) legal system to arrive at the same conclusion?
Let's try this one more time. The victim started out as the perpetrator when he approached the original vic's vehicle in a threatening manner cursing him, spitting on him, yelling racial slurs at him and finally assaulting him through the window of the vehicle. The original vic changed the game when he pulled the gun and shot the original perp. The original vic turned perp when he drove out of the lot and returned to fire a couple of more shots at the now vic. The first shot fired was in self defense because the original victim feared for his own safety and life. The next series of shots are, by law, considered a crime of passion with no malice aforethought thus can only be deemed as voluntary manslaughter. The magistrate did his job in interpreting the law correctly. To the family of the victim, let me first say I am very sorry for your loss. But you obviously don't understand the judicial process. You cannot hire a private attorney to prosecute a criminal case. That is why we elect a district attorney whether we like the job he is doing or not. Maybe we should all just read what the media reports and stop trying to interpret the law ourselves. Killing is NOT always murder.
Obviously you are wrong as someone smarter than the both of us sees it diferently and dismissed the charges. You can continue to disagree but if you do then you are disagreeing with the Constitutional laws of the United States of America. Not very patriotic in my opinion. Innocent until proven guilty means we cannot try, convict and punish the man on this blog or anywhere else except a court of law. I agree he should be punished and not let go scot free but the correct charge in this case is voluntary manslaughter NOT murder!
#19.2
Family of Christopher
on
09/09/11 at 02:47 PM
What type of sentencing do people usually receive for man slaughter? I do not understand all the laws,but you sir obviously do.. So educate us on what happens now? I am sorry we make you sick, your defending your people. Now we feel we have defend ours. Alot of emotions flying around,but what if this man runs before the 20th? What if he kills someone else,can their family hold your county responsible? None of this seems right nor fair to us. So educate us on what is to come now.. Please and thank you....
Voluntary manslaughter carries a penalty of one to 20 years in the state of Georgia in accordance to the severity of the crime. I would say, in this case, the maximum penalty would be sought.
How do you know the facts? How can anyone know exactly how it went? Sounds to me you investigated this case, you knew chris spit on him ect... None of that has been told or posted on anything. Educate us as far as what happens next since you know everything about this case. So even the People of the judicial system are writing on this wall..maybe that's why justice for the victim who was killed has no chance if the people who should be putting all the facts and evidence together would do their jobs and get off this garbage site. I am not positive on who or what your job is but you from judicial system so
Where to know the info you have shared on this site. Thanks for telling the family sorry about chris. But it would mean more if this man was not out on the streets and someone would try a little harder to make sure some type of justice is served!
I readily admit that I am not 100% certain of the facts. Who is except for the 2 men involved and one of them is, unfortunately, deceased. I do, however, have friends in low places, if you will, and have been told quite a bit about the case. I do not work in the judicial system but I know quite a bit through reading and paying attention. You should try it. It's exhilirating. I stand behind my posts and beliefs that this crime was not a cold blooded murder but a shooting in self defense that turned into a voluntary manslaughter when the perp returned to shoot the victim again. My thoughts on the case are well thought out given what evidence I have had to go by unlike most of the posts who deducted right off the bat that a murder was committed simply because a man was killed. There is a lot more to it than that. Mark my word, justice will be served in the form of the manslaughter time and the perp will do time. Not that it will satisfy the lynch mob on this "garbage site".
The family needs to contact a lawyer and sue him in civil court. Also contact Dept. of Justice and see about rights violation. Beleve me if it was the other way around they would!
It won't happen and that's just stupid. The family will end up being even more broke for hiring a lawyer lol. It was self defense. If they wanna hire a lawyer then go ahead but they are the ones blowing their money and will look even more stupid.
TO Chris's family:
I don't know yall all very well, but i just wanted to say that i stand behind yall in seeking justice for Chris and his family.I will be keeping you all in my prayers.
You don't earn your pay as a Magistrate Judge when make decisions on public opinion, it is when you stand up and do what is right. It is always easier to stand with a crowd then against the crowd. You people need to educate your self. The DA's office can still have Frenchie taken before the grand jury. If the victim was indeed in the wrong would anyone acknowledge it? Probably not, it is sad that children were left without a father, parents were left with out a child, and a wife without a husband, but if he would have been home with them, instead of accosting a man on his way home from work, then it would have never happened. Some people need to mind there own business. What I intend to do now. My sympathy for the victims family. RIP Chris.
If this had been the LCSO they would had made murder charges several differnet ways on the warrent not just one. It's called backup. I been on grand jury's where they were charged with every type but one and then in trail the jury can decide which one fits the crime. So don't blame the judge if Mr. Frambro had more than one type he would still be in jail. Hate will burn you alive and kill you early. It's dangerous thing.
Frenchie will do 7 years on a 20 year sentence for voluntary manslaughter. They will use the mental health part to his defense. He may get a 10 year sentence instead 20. He will do 3-4 on a 10 year sentence. The first shot was justified reguardless of other people opinions. The shots thereafter were not. Adrenaline can be a dangerous thing. In the heat of the moment anything can happen and it may not can be controlled.
Your spelling is horrible and your argument is about the most retarded I have ever heard in my life. You obviously don't have much intelligence, go back to school (I suggest you start with Kindergarten), learn to read and write, then come back with your opinion.
His leaving the scene of the crime and returning means he "left" the area, thought about what was going on, reflected on what to do, then returned to the scene and shot to kill. Even if it was just a few minutes, those few minutes gave him time to "PLAN" his next step....THUS it would be premeditated MURDER (There is evidence of MALICE AFORETHOUGHT if he did in fact LEAVE and then RETURN to the scene of the crime to intentionaly KILL)
Therefore he should have been charged with FIRST degree muder because it meets all the qualifications of this charge due to the violent nature and premediatated acts and intentions made by the killer.
You should read the Constitution AND the Bill of Rights, because due process is also a right gauranteed by BOTH! And letting a KILLER go free is NOT Due Process for the vicitms family!
The police evidence will show that Mr. Fambro NEVER actually left the scene. He should have and it would have merely been a case of justifiable homicide in self-defense. But when Mr. Stepanski went down, Mr. Fambro pulled his car up to him and fired the next shot(s), a crime of passion because it extended from fear of his safety when he was attacked by Mr. Stepanski in the vehicle. Therefore, no malice aforethought, no first degree murder. Self-defense, then voluntary manslaughter. If the investigators had followed the evidence to this conclusion then Mr. Fambro might still be incarcerated awaiting trial to be convicted of voluntary manslaughter and a possible 20 year sentence. No consolation to the family I know. But obviously most of you think that just because a person was killed a murder was committed. Maybe you should read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and you will discover that due process of law has been followed thus far. Yes, due process does apply for both the victim and the perpetratro. It just happens that it falls in favor of Mr. Fambro at this point because of the error made in charging him.
Judging by the Grand Jurys decision, the investigators knew what they were doing and did it correctly. I am sure they know more facts about the case than anyone posting on this blog...including family members of Chris. Wow, people are quick to jump on them. Why do you think they can control what a judge does? The judge in this case was the idiot also proven by the jurys decision. All of this crap will be dealt with during the trial, that is of course if Frenchie is still in this country. I think I would be in Mexico if I were him. He has had enough days out of jail to dissapear.....
The following is from georgiacriminaldefense.com and should put to rest the question as to whether there is a such thing as "first degree murder" in Georgia.
"Georgia does not have degrees of murder like many states. In other words, we do not have a crime known as first degree murder, which usually requires premeditation, and is sometimes referred to as premeditated murder. Nor does Georgia have an offense known as second degree murder.
Murder Charges in Georgia
In Georgia there are two basic types of murder charges –
■Malice Murder, the Georgia charge that is akin to many states’ second degree murder,
■Felony Murder, the Georgia charge that is the unlawful killing of someone while committing a felony.
There are defenses to murder charges, of course, but if convicted, an individual is facing life in prison (with or without the possibility of parole) or the death penalty.
Manslaughter Charges in Georgia
Voluntary manslaughter means that homicide occurred under circumstances that the person acted as a result of a sudden, violent and irresistible passion caused by a provocation likely to excite such passion in a reasonable person. The penalty is imprisonment for one to twenty years.
Felony involuntary manslaughter, which is punishable by one to ten years imprisonment, occurs when an individual causes the death of another person while committing an unlawful act other than a felony. Misdemeanor involuntary homicide involves the killing of another person while committing a lawful act in an unlawful manner."
Note the paragraph on Voluntary Manslaughter. This best fits the incident of which this thread is about.
I promise if he runs again I won't vote for Judge Thomas again. Barnesville is turning into a former shadow of itself. I am moving after the first of the year, and I can't say I will miss it. Barnesville used to be an awsome small town. Now the politics, and the greed of people have turn this awsome small town into a not very good place to live.
I know Judge Thomas and he is a righteous man. It sounds like you have your own problems. I hope things work out better in the next town you choose.
MW
I wish people would just be quiet and stop making their own assumptions about this case. If you were not there to witness the incident then just be quiet. The only two beings that truly know what happened is Frenchie and Chris. God knows the rest of course. Yes there was people around, but of course no one was really paying attention until they heard a gun shot. Sorry someone lost their life, but he chose that path. Had he been concentrating on being a faithful husband and father he would still be here. God is the final judge in this case He already set the path for Frenchie. Frenchie is truly a blessed man of God and regardless of what they try to comeback with he is and will continue to be blessed. One thing is for sure he can't be charged with murder.
How can this same judge deny bond on a couple of kids making a rap video about killing a cop, yet free a murderer without even downgrading the charge like he says he could have? What kind of "justice" is that. Killer free, rappers still in jail.
These "couple of kids making a rap video" made it about gunning down a local cop, naming him by name. They are a menace to society and each have rap sheets (no pun intended) longer than a wait in the doctor's office. Mr. Fambro has no prior trouble with the law. Let the judge do his job, run against and take his job since you know so much or shut the heck up.
Has the Magistrates action caused Frenchie to loose a basic Right of Trial By Jury? I believe a trial by jury would either exonerate him, or find him guilty. This would put the entire issue to bed.
Judge Thomas judges strictly by the law. He is a man of intergrity and moral character. I will vote for him again. No one on this site has looked over the findings and evidence of this case. Stop assuming things you know nothing about. The sin of assumption is a terrible thing.
Shooting an unarmed man who was threatening me point blank five times is self defense. So is firing a warning shot at tresspasser asking for directions. A person has a reasonable right to protect himself. Thomas did the right thing.
That is true however, Hambone didnt continue chasing or shooting at those boys. He didnt kill them either. In this case, it should be up to a jury, after hearing all of the FACTS, as to whether it was self defense or not. Maybe it was self defense, maybe it wasnt. If Frenchie had not left his car, then it would automatically be self defense...but he did so that is where it gets tricky. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
yaw is crzy peeples.frenchie ain do nuttin.he said pow pow pow pow.all 4 times killed that boy.maybe day sum1 will no what it like to have to defen yoself,until den shut up and let the free man walk.
i'ma eat me sum prim rib this fridy.yessu i'm is.and den i'ma shak his han an tll him i proud of him becus he shoot that guy in self dfense.noone blame hime.we blame other guy who make frenchie mad.
I'm a female who carries a gun and even if I didn't know the person who was attacking me through my car window at a gas station, I would NOT have pulled out my gun and started shooting. I would have pulled away from the guy, rolled up my window and called the police.
Do you know the charges filed? The police will present the evidence to the Grand Jury and they will decide what charges Frenchie can be tried for. This will fall on the DA also.....The police are not the judge nor the jury.
Is Judge Thomas the Judge that signed the warrant for Frenchies arrest, basing that information on what the police investigation showed...? You have to have evidence to get a warrant signed right??? As evidence had not been presented in front of the grand jury yet, why did judge Thomas let him go when he had the same exact informantion that he signed the origional warrant for? That doesnt make sense.
The information and evidence should have been presented to the Grand Jury to decide what charges apply. Isnt that how it is suppose to work?
The Truth will Prevail!!!!!!! This idiot named Frenchie has to answer to our higher power no matter what any of the rest of you have to say. all's I can say Frenchie Fambro is your gonna burn in hell for what youve done!!!! SO BURN BABY BURN!
Frenchie done the community a favor.
Good Luck, Frenchie!!!!!!!!!!!
Better for them to get this thing right now than to go to trial with insufficient evidence and cost the taxpayers a bunch of money for a jury to let him go when presented the insufficient evidence in court a la the tot killing mom in Flordia.
Once one gets over the shock of seeing that Fambro was freed, and goes deeper into the article, one sees that this case is probably not over yet.
Someone help me understand how Milam comes into play. Does he get involved after the warrant was signed and Frenchie was arrested, or does he see the evidence before it is presented to the judge to obtain the warrant?
You are a real joke, and no clue what you are doing...Oh I forgot to said when you ran for re-election our Magistrate court is in good hands...Well who's hands is the court in Satan him self. WOW..what a joke....
I dont know what else to say, but I think Luther could do a better job then you.
Do us all a favor and resign or retire, but our Magistrate court is not in good hands.
I don't think Frenchie should walk free because he could have stopped after the first shot, but a lesser charge of manslaughter is more fitting in this situation.
Becky, your family is in my prayers.
Something is wrong here.
Where to know the info you have shared on this site. Thanks for telling the family sorry about chris. But it would mean more if this man was not out on the streets and someone would try a little harder to make sure some type of justice is served!
I don't know yall all very well, but i just wanted to say that i stand behind yall in seeking justice for Chris and his family.I will be keeping you all in my prayers.
GIVE ME A BREAK!!!
Killers go free and singers get three hots and a cot.
Therefore he should have been charged with FIRST degree muder because it meets all the qualifications of this charge due to the violent nature and premediatated acts and intentions made by the killer.
You should read the Constitution AND the Bill of Rights, because due process is also a right gauranteed by BOTH! And letting a KILLER go free is NOT Due Process for the vicitms family!
but they are gonna bust you for your spelling.
"Georgia does not have degrees of murder like many states. In other words, we do not have a crime known as first degree murder, which usually requires premeditation, and is sometimes referred to as premeditated murder. Nor does Georgia have an offense known as second degree murder.
Murder Charges in Georgia
In Georgia there are two basic types of murder charges –
■Malice Murder, the Georgia charge that is akin to many states’ second degree murder,
■Felony Murder, the Georgia charge that is the unlawful killing of someone while committing a felony.
There are defenses to murder charges, of course, but if convicted, an individual is facing life in prison (with or without the possibility of parole) or the death penalty.
Manslaughter Charges in Georgia
Voluntary manslaughter means that homicide occurred under circumstances that the person acted as a result of a sudden, violent and irresistible passion caused by a provocation likely to excite such passion in a reasonable person. The penalty is imprisonment for one to twenty years.
Felony involuntary manslaughter, which is punishable by one to ten years imprisonment, occurs when an individual causes the death of another person while committing an unlawful act other than a felony. Misdemeanor involuntary homicide involves the killing of another person while committing a lawful act in an unlawful manner."
Note the paragraph on Voluntary Manslaughter. This best fits the incident of which this thread is about.
MW
i'ma eat me sum prim rib this fridy.yessu i'm is.and den i'ma shak his han an tll him i proud of him becus he shoot that guy in self dfense.noone blame hime.we blame other guy who make frenchie mad.
my name mike hunt.
The information and evidence should have been presented to the Grand Jury to decide what charges apply. Isnt that how it is suppose to work?