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Cruel and Unusual punishment or effective corporal punishment?

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in Opinion
Thursday, August 6. 2009
Comments (19)
There has been an argument in the last thirty years about the severity (or lack thereof) of discipline in our schools.

Some parents feel punishment is necessary in the discipline process while others think it is their job - and their job only - to discipline their children as they see fit.

Perhaps though and unparalleled case has surfaced in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

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#1 Tough Love on 08/06/09 at 09:34 AM
while others think it is their job - and their job only - to discipline their children as they see fit.

MAYBE THEY SHOULD START DISCIPLINING THEIR CHILDREN THEN SO THEY WILL BEHAVE IN PUBLIC AND IN SCHOOL!
#2 Enoc Sioul on 08/06/09 at 09:34 AM
Around 5.4 million deaths a year are caused by tobacco. Smoking is set to kill 6.5 million people in 2015 and 8.3 million humans in 2030, with the biggest rise in low-and middle-income countries. Every 6.5 seconds a current or former smoker dies, according to the World Health Organization (WHO). An estimated 1.3 billion people are smokers worldwide (WHO). Over 443,000 Americans (over 18 percent of all deaths) die because of smoking each year. Secondhand smoke kills about 50,000 of them. 1.2 million people in China die because of smoking each year. That's 2,000 people a day. Tobacco use will kill 1 billion people in the 21st century if current smoking trends continue.

Although her method was a bit crude.... but effective….she did him a favor.
#3 Anonymous on 08/06/09 at 09:37 AM
They need to at least bring back the paddle.
#4 Anonymous on 08/06/09 at 09:48 AM
Most people my age (54) were raised with a paddle in school. I can tell you with the voice of experience that when the paddle made contact with your hind parts, IT HURT !!, but the hurt lasted only a few minutes. What kept me in line was the fear of my Father's discipline when I got home. I do agree that the paddle has it's place in schools but without parental involvement it will be a momentary, not long lasting fix

Thank You
#5 Anonymous on 08/06/09 at 09:50 AM
this is a classic case of the wanting someone to do your job for you by punishing your child. It is not the govnt or schools responsibility to discipline your child. It is not their job to set up a retirement plan, healthcare, and many many other things that they intervene with. Americans need to step up to the plate and take personal responsibility for their actions and even take control of their childen.

As for paddling and teachers or principles punishing my child... it isnt gonna happen. Too many child molesters and other weirdo type people that live one life at home and another life in public. They may see things different than it do. If my child acts up it is your job to let me know. If parents did their job right things would be a lot better.
#6 Sheila Tolley on 08/06/09 at 10:31 AM
Andrew,
I would have to think long and hard on that one. First of all it is impossible to compare it to my own school days, when needing to be reprimanded was a personal insult. I knew if I had gotten into trouble at school, I would also get into more trouble when I got home.
Nowadays, it seems that school is more like Reform School, by necessity.
#7 Robert E. Fathman, Ph.D. on 08/06/09 at 10:39 AM
Good school discipline is instilled in the mind, not the behind. The U.S. is the only developed country in the world that has not yet banned physical punishment of kids. Research studies all, 100%, condemn the practice. Schools that prohibit striking children have higher graduation rates, lower vandalism rates and their students attain higher scores on national achievement tests. Corporal punishment doesn't instill discipline, it instills anger, and the same kids get paddled over and over. Educators in 30 states and 110 nations successfully educate without hitting. Georgia schools should all follow that lead. The legislature should examine the subject, do the homework, and ban the paddle.
#8 cats on 08/06/09 at 12:02 PM
I got paddled in the 8th grade, I have never forgotten the embarrassment of it.
It was effective for me, though, as I was hardheaded when I was young.
When I think of my own 2 children, I think that one of them would have been consumed with anger and it would have been detrimental, and the other child would have been embarrassed and it would have been effective.
My answer is that kids are individuals and each case warrants a different response.
As for the Malaysian punishment, I think I would have been angry with the teacher for making my child smoke a pack.
#9 Paul on 08/06/09 at 12:54 PM
I got paddled at school, and then got a belt at home. In no way do I resent my parents (God rest their souls) for ever spanking me when I needed it. There are those that call it 'hitting', but I believe there is a distinct difference in 'hitting' and 'spanking'.

Whether or not the USA is the only developed country that still uses physical punishment makes no difference to me. I know it works, and I'm living proof. Both of my kids know it works too, and neither of them are angry with me or my wife for disciplining them.

As for the teacher and the smoking punishment, she should have found another way. Let me handle it. My dad died of lung cancer, from smoking. That's all the incentive I need NOT to smoke. And if my kid tries it, I'll whoop his A** and then take him to the cemetery to visit the granddad he never got to meet, all because of smoking.
#10 Anonymous on 08/06/09 at 01:43 PM
That's the problem. There are too many parents that don't discipline their children. They should but they dont. People actually call the police for them to come and do something with their children. Therefor you have disruptive children at school and it effects the ones there trying to learn. The schools should be able to discipline kids. It didn't take but one time for me to get paddled at school and I learned my lesson. And it didn't screw me up mentally either.
#11 anonymous on 08/06/09 at 03:08 PM
i got spankings when i was little and i turned out fine my mother and father spanked me not beat me and we knew better than to do it again also the principal had a paddle at school and we also knew better . spare the rod and spoil the child
#12 Psycho on 08/06/09 at 04:15 PM
I'm 25 and when I was growing up I got spanked on a regular bases. Teachers remember me by name to this day.

When I got to 4th or 5th grade it became an option for the parents to have the school spank the child or use other methods of punishment.

My Mom chose other methods of punishment for the school even those she spanked me when I got home. I don't know why she chose for the school not to spank me, but it worked better. Instead of spanking me the school would make me go to ISS (in school suspension).

For those older people that didn't have the pleasure of going to ISS, I will explain it.
You don't get to go to your normal class. You had to go to a room with cubeicals and do school work none stop the whole day by yourself. When you eat lunch you eat last and by yourself. No talking for the whole day. At the end of the day when you leave and enter the halls where all the other kids are the noise of everyone talking is deafening! Your in sound over load. You had to do this for 3 days!

ISS was torture for me. I would have took spanking any day, because it was over in 10 seconds! Sure it hut for like 3 minutes, but that was enough to stop me from doing it again. So you do have to find what works for what kid.

At home spanking didn't work either. In fact it just ticked me off and made me want to do it again, but only in spite. My mom found ways to make me behave though. She took my favorite possessions or privileges. Like take my allowance, car, TV, video games....
#13 Anonymous on 08/06/09 at 05:17 PM
Im 26 Psycho so we went to school together. No way the school is gonna spank my child like i said in my post #4 . Ill do the punishment that i want. There are tons of ways to get things through to a child. Some people at the schools dont have any business having children much less trying to discipline my child.

As for me. It didnt take but a time or two of me getting whooped at home to learn to listen and do what grown ups say to do. Some children are harder to teach than others.
#14 Sheila Tolley on 08/06/09 at 07:02 PM
Well, again, I have my opinions, and you all have yours.

However, with my vast experience on these and other subjects, it is much easier for me to come to a more clear understanding.

I'm Sheila Tolley, and I approved this message.
#15 sherry hollis on 08/06/09 at 09:25 PM
Too many parents don't disclipline their kids, the reason they act bad in schools. The schools say parents need to do this. BUT, in turn, the schools should also make the kids behave when they are in their care.
Schools do other things besides spanking, or nothing at all. In some cases they have killed children in the classrooms, and in most cases nothing is done so the schools can get the NCLB money.
THIS is the reason there is so much bullying, fighting and KILLING going on in schools.
Schools either go to one extreme or the other.
Schools can abuse kids (there are MANY MANY cases of this) and get away with it, but if PARENTS did these things to their children, school will call DFACS on them and they would be in jail.

We had spankings in school. The principal would spank you in front of the class. Worked every time. I just don't see how people say that spanking is wrong, but what THEY are doing is NOT WORKING!!
Spanking is taken out of schools and they wonder why kids are so BAD? Common sense, which schools don't have.
#16 EdLead on 08/07/09 at 05:18 AM
There are some administrators and teachers, who definitely need more training and those who need to look at themselves. A number do not know how to discipline children. That particular teacher would benefit from learning more positive disciplinary measures. Laws are somewhat harsh in Malaysia. I've been there to observe and had opportunity to talk with high ranking officals re drug trafficking/use and associated punishment. I got paddled and hit on the hand with this long stick when I was in school. It put the fear o God in me and did not repeat whatever it was that I did again.#s-6,7,8, good answers.
#17 Anonymous on 08/07/09 at 09:22 AM
Teachers do have a system which consists of other types of discipline. They are trained to give other types of punishement, but their job is mainly to teach. Having to discipline and stand in the hall several time a day trying to explain to the child why they should do something takes away from the other 25 students wanting to learn. Teachers give warnings, take away part or all of recess, call parents, and then fill out a referral. All of that interruption just to get ISS. Kids should be more respectful and be greatful that they are getting an education. Some (not all) parents do not instill into their children how important it is to get a good education in order to be productive citizens.
#18 Jeff Charles on 08/07/09 at 05:53 PM
I host a website, www.nopaddle.com, about school paddling as physical abuse, sexual abuse, and sexual harassment.
When you compare government smoking statistics and US school paddling rates by state, overall the paddling states have higher smoking rates, even though this is one of the primary reasons for paddling. Like all other "cures" paddling is alleged to do, it cannot be documented to have any good effect, and it is rather associated with many of the ills it is alleged to cure.
Many people enjoy spanking other people's children, and even teens and even teen girls not surprisingly, and abuse and severe bruises often result. The idea it is "necessary" has kept it going, but the facts worldwide with many countries doing away with school CP (and also in the US by the 30 states that have), the good news is "CP" is not necessary. It is the quackery and abuse that it seems to so many to be.
#19 EdLead-12 on 08/09/09 at 03:30 PM
I do understand and teachers should be able to refer students immediately, if they feel that what they try to does not help. Often office personnel sent the child right back to the classroom. There should be a professional available to handle disciplinary problems. Although some staff that operate the ISS room may be good, most are not specialist/know how/allowed to to get the child the professional help that he/she may need outside of the school. Some children enjoy ISS, therefore it is incumbent upon someone in the school system to have the knowledge and then authority to seek appropriate HELP for the child.
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