Health Care Bill passes critical senate test in predawn hours
Senate Democrats won a crucial test vote on President Barack Obama's health care overhaul, putting them on track for passage before Christmas of the historic legislation to remake the nation's medical system and cover 30 million uninsured.
If there was ever a time to kick the bums out of Congress it is now! Please Congress I don't need or want any more of your "help".
Down turned economy. Hard working americans
Always have to pay for the bums sitting on
Their butts feeling they are entitled when
They do nothing to better themselves. Go ahead
Obama flush the toilet you put us in. I'm
Afraid the 2010 election is going to be to late
To stop the damage already done by these idiots to
Our country.
1:
1883 was the first year universal healthcare was seen in Europe and it was first introduced in America in the early 1900's.
2:
We, the United States is the only industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system.
We gave the world the automobile, the first man on the moon and countless other achievements. Why is it so seemly difficult to come together as a nation and find a solution to healthcare reform? We are AMERICA. We can solve this problem.
We are more alike than our differences suggest.
We live in a democracy where the ultimate power lies with the will of the people. This places a HUGE responsibility on our voting citizens. In order to exercise this power effectively and wisely, we need to have an accurate understanding of the issues.
However, there is a huge problem. A large portion of our society is very easily influenced by propaganda and fear tactics. It has been said to never admit to a lie..just keep repeating it. Words like communism, socialism, death panels etc. instill fear in our hearts and can cause us to make emotional rather than reasoned choices. Insurance companies are bankrolling health care reform opposition. And they have plenty of our money to do it. Do your homework. We as Americans can handle healthcare reform better than this.
I hope that all who read this are inspired to do their own research and not to depend on the media for our opinions and facts.
There are MANY reasons that hard working individuals do not have access to affordable healthcare or are underinsured. DO NOT BASE YOUR DECISION TO OPPOSE HEALTHCARE REFORM ON THE FEW PEOPLE THAT ABUSE THE SYSTEM. I work in this particular sector and there ARE people that need healthcare and work hard every day. There is more good being done than is always obvious.
I agree that the Medicaid and Medicare systems do need some work. This should be addressed by any healthcare legislation that is passed to end abuse by people who take advantage of it. That DOES NOT MEAN we should not have a system in place at all. The situation would be far worse for Americans. Private (PROFIT SEEKING) Insurance companies should not have absolute power over our very well being.
The working poor should not be tapped to pay the cost of healthcare. Corporations or any entity that has made their millions off of our backs should be responsible… and without passing the costs onto us. Those Bush tax cuts and unnecessary wars took money that could have been put to better use.
If you have private healthcare like me, we have suffered from a false sense of security. If it so happens that one day we need a life saving transplant or chemo treatments, it is NOT guaranteed that your insurance company will cover it. People are denied every day because treatments are too experimental, you have met your max lifetime limit or you suffer from a previously undisclosed trivial pre-existing condition.
So ask yourself, is it not an injustice for someone to die from a simple infection that could have been treated if they had access to health insurance? Is LIFE not a basic right? Is it reserved only for unborn children? Or have we allowed greed and judgment to persuade us?
We must fix the predatory Health Destruction Industry in one fell swoop, lest one more innocent life be sacrificed to profit.
Money should NOT be the deciding factor on who is allowed to live.
In order to proceed, let’s take a look at the definition of the word bribery. A Bribe is defined as: persuade somebody with enticement: to give somebody money or some other incentive to do something, especially something illegal or dishonest.
Some of these senators offered a bribe in order to secure a vote and some of these senators accepted the bribe and agreed to cast the secured vote. That in my opinion make some of these senators guilty of violating the Constitution of the United States and punishable by impeachment. And those senators that are allowing the violations of the Constitution are equally guilty for not supporting the Constitution.
These acts cannot be more clearly spelled out. The Constitution for the United States of America, in Article II, Section 4, says, The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
When senators offer special deals to swing and secure the vote on a bill to other senators, and those senators accept, enticement was offered and enticement was accepted, making them guilty of violating the office which they swore an oath to uphold. Everyone in my opinion should contact their senator and representative and demand action.
Under Article 6 of the United States Constitution, the Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
In my opinion, any member in government that does not step up to the plate and take the steps necessary to correct the corruption taking place is also guilty of violating the Constitution and punishable under the rules of impeachment afforded in the Constitution.
It was Thomas Jefferson that said, “When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
It is up to the people (us) to make government fear the people so we can maintain liberty. If we don’t force government to follow the laws, then only the people (us) can be blamed for our loss of liberty.
I hope everyone will take a few minutes and write your senator and representative and remind them of a little document written a couple of hundred years ago that they swore an oath to uphold. Demand action against those people that violated it and call for the impeachment that the constitution affords.
What is the source of your information that it "doesn't work"?
I have many family members that live in Europe. It doesn't seem to be an issue for them. Their country has not been bankrupt by providing universal health care for the last half a century.
http://www.nrlc.org/AHC/NRLConReidManagersAmend.html
As for my sources, they do not sell manure.
I started asking my Ham Radio friends, literally hundreds of them, how they like their systems and they really are no more likely to complain than people here.
Recently a friend of mine in Merino, Victoria Australia had what he thought was a coronary. In spite of being way out in the middle of nowhere he was picked up and transported to a hospital where he received immediate care. His total cost, about $20 US.
Here is what someone else from the Netherlands recently e-mailed me:
Hello Tom,
Thanks for reply !
About our system .... we have to pay to what we like to ensure... you can
choose what you want but you've to be insured by law (basic-package) ...
it's a good system ....sometimes we have to wait to get to a specialist for
few weeks so same you say...
Like in Belgium , they've no waitlist.
20 years ago , our system was free ... but now and i can understand , it's
too expensive that the goverment pay for all so the early system is out and
we have to pay every month $ 120-200 .... it's want you want ... extra
dentist yes or no .......
We have a basicpackage with almost all churgian work in it.
To pay for that is no isseu because that's in the basic package.
Medicines are only payed by insureance.
The first medical expensives of $ 200 in one year is our care and the rest
is for the ensureance.
If some people like it.....don't know....I like is good for family.
Sorry for my bad english....
Hans
>>>>>
Of course with Government or employer paid insurance people here are happy. They in effect have free health care. People who pay several thousand dollars a year, or who can't get insurance at all at any cost, are unhappy. Employers who pay the high rates are unhappy.
People who get care free or at minimal cost, like you, are happy as can be. People who have to pay 3 dollars an hour out of their pay (assuming a 2080 work hour year are not as happy. Some can't afford it.
What does a good Christian tell those people? Stay sick and die? I'm to cheap to worry about you? What do we tell them?
Tom
The “emergency room insurance” you are referring to incorrect at best. Although emergency rooms are required to stabilize people who are in life threatening situations…..this is far from health insurance. There is no follow-up to emergency services they have received. There is no wellness checkup to prevent disease. AND THE COST OF INDIGENT CARE IS PASSED ON TO THE PUBLIC ANYWAY IN THE FORM OF INCREASED FEES ETC... In my line of business, I have talked to many people who have received this “emergency room insurance”. One such individual had a broken bone. Because of lack of money for their follow-up appointment, they are now disfigured and unable to work due to the pain and decreased mobility. Another person was suffering from a painful benign tumor that no doctor would remove because this person was uninsured. It makes it difficult to work in that condition. More people now living off of the system.
KNOW THIS…It costs tax payers far more to cover these unpaid medical bills, disability payments and food stamps etc. than it would if healthcare was provided to these poorer individuals to begin with.
Also, Google 'health insurance horror stories'. There are several accounts of people denied services because their health insurance would not cover it. They pay their monthly premiums.
And replace the section where I say that it is an “injustice for someone to die from a simple infection that could have been treated” to “it is an injustice to allow someone to die from a treatable disease/illness/injury”.
I also want to add this point, for those who argue that people too lazy to work would be the only ones benefiting from universal health care. A family is able to receive Low Income Family Medicaid for a family of 4 only if their income is less than 925 a month (who can sustain a family of 4 on that income?). If they do not have children under 18yrs old, they are only eligible for Medicaid in the state of Georgia if they are within income guidelines for pregnancy Medicaid, are aged, blind or disabled. There are many single mothers who work 40 hours a week and make too much for Low Income Medicaid for themselves (private insurance costs too much) but are within income limits for their children to receive child-only Medicaid (thank God). Think about what would happen to that mother if she becomes ill and needs medical attention.
Health care reform would focus on those of us who are working and do not have access to health insurance, can’t afford it, are underinsured or have pre-existing conditions.
I am not democrat. I am not republican. I do not allow ideologies to do my thinking for me. I just do not agree that money should be the deciding factor on who is allowed to live. It goes against my spiritual beliefs.
This bill does little to help that it requires me to by health insurance that we can’t afford or pay a $3500 a month fine. All the fees and taxes for this bill start right a way but the insurance part won’t start till 2014.
I am advocating for the need for healthcare reform and a persons right to receive adequate medical treatment regardless of ability to pay. I am hoping for an improvement on the status quo.
I do not expect magic from our congress. I dont what all the current bill will contain but it will probably be less than perfect. But it will not change my mind that no one should suffer or die due to lack of medical care.
Money has become a false idol.
West’s Encyclopedia of American Law defines bribery as: The offering, giving, receiving, or soliciting of something of value for the purpose of influencing the action of an official in the discharge of his or het public or legal duties.
Under 18 US Code – Section 201: Bribery of public officials and witnesses. (b)(1)(A)(2)(A)(4) Whoever, directly or indirectly, offers or promises anything of value to any public official with intent – to influence any official act; in return for: being influenced in the performance of any official act; shall be fined under this title or not more than three times the monetary equivalent of the thing of value, whichever is greater, or imprisoned for not more than fifteen years, or both, and may be disqualified from holding any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
The Constitution for the United States of America, in Article II, Section 4, says, The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.
A member of congress that offered and/or received special deals in exchange for a vote is not a compromise; it is offering or accepting a bribe. As a representative of the people, any member of congress witnessing such special deals in exchange for a particular vote should pursue legal and/or impeachment action against those members offering or accepting the bribes in exchange for those votes.
You can talk all day about the abuse, bribery, back door deals, pork barrel spending and any other evil that pervades Washington today and it does not change the fact that this is the current system. This is how it has operated and will continue to operate until something major is done. It is wrong. It is a misuse of power. However, it is foolish to believe that this will change tomorrow or that it will EVER be perfect. I personally think that absolute power will corrupt. I dont care how pure someone is when they are voted in..power will get to them. So you can try to vote for someone new next election, but they will soon fall to the temptations of Washington just like others before them.
However, we still need someone running the country to address the needs of the nation as a whole. To attempt to protect or help us with terrorists, corporations, natural disasters etc... no matter how ineffective they seem to be, there is some good being done. We ALL wish it could be more.
I suggest that we pray for our leaders and ourselves so that God will perhaps give us patience and understanding that He is still in control.
I would not lie. The information on healthcare injustice is out there. It may not be covered by the major news outlets... and that is a different issue all together.
I am hoping that the power that be manage to deliver a bill in which the cost of healthcare reform is not put on working class citizens... It would make no sense.
I understood your comment to say that you are OK with the way this bill went through. I am not. Additionally, you are wrong about power getting to everyone voted in to office. I know that senators seek special things for their state. However, regardless of how you view this, it was wrong and, I am going to make every possible effort to see that these actions are investigated and dealt with.
I may accomplish nothing but I will be able to say that I tried. Remember the old saying. You eat an elephant one bite at a time. I refuse to say that this is the way it is always done.
In cardiovascular care, a comparative study of death rates from stroke and heart disease put Britain’s NHS 13th out of 15 European countries studied. In a 17-nation cancer study, the five-year survival rate for lung cancer in Britain was the worst of the 17; for colon cancer, Britain ranked 12th; and for breast cancer, Britain was 11th out of 17 (just above Slovenia, Austria, Estonia, Poland, and Slovakia).[22] In the early 1990s, Britain had fewer radiotherapists per capita than Poland and fewer medical oncologists than any country in Western Europe.
Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) figures for 1996 show that Britain had 1.7 practicing physicians per 1,000 population; Germany had 3.4 per 1,000; France, 2.9 per 1,000; and Poland, 2.4 per 1,000. The only countries with a lower proportion among the 29 studied by the OECD were South Korea (1.2 per 1,000), Mexico (1.2 per 1,000), and Turkey (1.1 per 1,000).[23] Some of these disparities are attributable to poor clinical practices, but the primary cause of these failures was rationing due to lack of funds. However, to raise expenditure to the levels of other developed countries would require massive tax increases. To improve British health care, alternative sources of funding were advised.[24]
Regrettably, says Rivett, the recent belief that modernization and elimination of “the internal market would remedy many problems proved as spurious as earlier magic solutions,” as large infusions of money “seemed to make little difference.”[39] As Richard Smith, editor of BMJ (British Medical Journal), remarked in 2002, “It seems to be universally agreed that the NHS is sick. It is plagued by delay, low quality care, and poor outcomes.”[40]
In February 2005, upset about low pay and the lack of a new contract, some 250 Ontario anesthesiologists held a one-day “meeting” in lieu of working to publicize a shortage of about 90 anesthesiologists in the province. The job action closed about 179 operating rooms at 27 hospitals to all but essential surgeries on that day; hundreds of elective surgeries were cancelled.[67] The protest was designed “to draw attention to the health-care system’s lack of funding and resources”[68] and to expose critical issues “putting the health of patients at risk.”[69] As of 2005, 43 percent of Ontario’s 929 anesthesiologists were over the age of 50, and in addition to a regular 50-hour workweek, 40 percent of anesthesiologists worked every fourth night in hospital providing emergency coverage.[70]
And so is LIBERTY!
No one is denying you your LIFE by refusing to grant you a contract for health care expense coverage, but on the other hand- LIBERTY is absolutely being denied when someone is FORCED to pay for someone else or FORCED to pay for something a government has deemed neccessary. If the individual has come to the conclusion that a consumer good or protection plan is neccessary then that person will provide themselves with it voluntarily.
If the person deems these items neccessary but is unable to afford them he/she will seek help from family and friends, additional income, or from the numerous networks of charitable donors. Notice the word charitable placed before the word donor, you would prefer the donors to be forced through government coercion which would leave many faced with the threat of violence against thier PERSON, not just thier possessions.
The long held idea that a threat by government fiat, or any decree not agreed to by the one being threatened, against one's monetary gains or previous wealth is not a direct threat against one's person is a lack of understanding the correlation between man, labor and wealth.
To take a man's wealth without permission through force is the same as taking his labor whithout permission with that same equal force. Since an individual is only capable of producing a finite amount of labor because he is bound by time (death is inevitable) to take this labor, now in the form of money, from him is to take a portion of his life.
A person's life is thier own property. Labor is performed during your life for different reasons ranging from farming for personal survival to selling watches in hope of large profits in the form of monetary gain to working in a soup kitchen to help feed those who are hungry for nothing more than sleeping a bit easier knowing that you helped, but always on your own accord- any other way would be a form of slavery.
When you use your life to produce labor in exchange for money you are only transforming that portion of your life into a medium of exchange- money.
The point is, its not handing everyone health care coverage that bothers me- its handing over portions of my life without my permission.
The Iraq war was a bigger waste of tax payer dollars and resulted in deaths of many of our fine US soldiers. Why?... We were lied to. I dont understand why that disaster has not lit a fire underneath more conservative Americans. I dont get it.
I hope that is investigated. I would MUCH rather have had my tax dollars spent elsewhere...like healthcare reform.
But thank you for an insightful discussion. I always like to hear another point of view.
1. Forcing you to kick into a government health plan whether you want to or not.
2. Forcing you into a government system where politicians make your health care decisions.
3. Forcing you into a government system where you pay for other people’s birth control by abortion.
4. Forcing you into a government health system where to government dictates your end of life plan.
5. Forcing you into a government health system where you’ll have no say on rationing of services.
There’s more - much more. But socialists like Tom Rauch always want to make the decisions for the unwashed masses because they’re better than everybody else and so much smarter. Liberty, freedom, and the US Constitution are his enemies.
Remember one thing - like all government programs - this one removes most if not all of your decision making rights and hands them over to a socialist government bureaucracy. Let’s also not forget that socialism is the #1 killer of people in the world. Socialism killed 100,000,000 of its own people in the Soviet Union and 60,000,000 + people in China. And many more in other socialist countries.
I for one prefer to take my chances with the crooked insurance companies. At least I can sue them and change carriers. You can’t sue the government and you can’t change ‘carriers’ once the government takes over the health care industry.
You've been warned. The siren songs sung by the socialists will be your death call.
There is a purpose in government. To promote the common good. Do you like the streets you drive on?
I am glad Jesus was willing to give his life for the common good. We should all try better to follow his example.
Hi Tom,
Merry Christmas......I have had 2 nights with thunderstorms and
lightning.....I will be on air tonight though so will look for you.
Yes, that terrible socialist system is a real burden on us..I have had
extensive hospital treatment, specialist appointments and MRI
examinations....The cost has been unbelievable...I think to date it adds
up to about $40 for gasoline for the car....I just know that our system
doesn't measure up to the US standard....(:-> ....Ha ha..I have to see
my Dr on 6th Jan for another check over...I am feeling good again now
and havn't had any reoccurence of the chest pains....However I still
wan't to know what has been causing it..I have been getting mild
catching pains high in my chest for a few years...I put it down to
angina but the MRI heart examinations show no blocked arteries around my
heart and I have excellent blood pressure...My lungs are clear also so
it is a mystery..
Bob
I have dozens of radio friends all over the world, and I'm visited by people from all over the world every year. We actually have at least one foreign guest a week. None of them have ever said anything bad when asked about their medical systems.
Tom
Here, Tom Rauch spins the yarn about talking world-wide to all his commie friends and they dish out the typical socialist selling job about the wonders of socialized government health care.
Just ask yourself this one question: 'Bob' got thousands and thousands of dollars in heart treatments for $40.
Who paid for those treatments?
Factually most people in New Zealand, Australia, England, the Netherlands, and all over the world with "socialized medicine" are happy, just as people here in the United States are happy with their personal form of socialized medicine.
If we are in the VA system, on Medicare, work for the government, or don't work at all we are on socialized medical care. The only people in this country who are not on socialized medical are working people who have private insurance.
What this really boils down to is if we are on a medical program or system paid for by someone else, we are happy. If some 30 year old working mother who doesn't have health care gets breast cancer, we give her the bare minimum treatment until she dies.
It's the new American dream to be selfish and hateful.
Here's how this 'compassion' works. You get the typical government hand-out of mediocrity and rationing at astronomical costs to society. Bureaucrats will determine your level of health care. People like Tom Rauch who are well-to-do will always have a higher level of health care. You won't find Rauch on lines waiting for healthcare. He'll use his private funds from his evil capitalist business to get the best care.
Senators, Congresspeople, and White House staff of course will also get their own special health care program - just for them.
So the middle class and the poor get sucked into another fake socialist give away. Funded by who? You of course. Prior to the government take-over of the private health insurance industry - you could opt out. You didn't have to pay if you didn't want to.
Knock knock - anybody home upstairs? Every American is now forced to pay for health care whether they want to or not. It's going to cost you a fortune. Taxes in all the 'free' health care countries are through the roof. You may as well stay home because you literally are working to pay the government with 1/2 your paycheck or more.
And, you are now going to be forced to accept the new government health care program for your own 'care' unless you are government royalty, wealthy businesspeople like Tom Rauch, highly paid education officials, university professors, and other members of the elite. Members of the elite will continue to get the best of everything.
So, these people did you a big favor. You think you're getting a free lunch. Instead, you're going to get table scraps.
I just hope I live long enough to see the look on people's faces when it finally dawns on them that they got the royal screwing from our government.
And for those who believe the socialist selling job- be advised there are plenty of horror stories about socialized government 'health' care that you don't here about in our government controlled media.
When you turn your health care decisions over to the government - you give up a huge part of your life to an entity that is anything but benevolent.
Read The Road to Serfdom by Friedrich A. Hayek. I'll email one to interested individuals.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,581132,00.html
Here you have a soldier spending Christmas in captivity with the Taliban. The same government that wants to control you through government health care, has killed thousands of its own citizens through undeclared wars for the past 50 years. The US military is in 135 different countries - there are how many in the world - 194?
Now that's compassion Tom.
And he says, “What this really boils down to is if we are on a medical program or system paid for by someone else, we are happy. If some 30 year old working mother who doesn't have health care gets breast cancer, we give her the bare minimum treatment until she dies.”
But he can’t stop there because he continues with, “It's the new American dream to be selfish and hateful.”
Well Tom, I’ve decided that you are so caught up in yourself that you actually lack the ability to see life any other way and your intelligece is a display of total left sided ignorance.
You can take your ideals of the new American dream to be selffish and hateful and put them up your blowhole.
You talk about how successful in life that you have been, and recently when I said to you that if change was so vital, for you to run for office to make the changes you considered so important. You said you couldn’t afford the cut in pay.
Myself and many, many more Americans sacrificed a lifetime of 20 years or more, prepared to give our lives, separated from family, working endless hours, in unimaginable enviormental conditions, some under fire, so that you can go about life and earn your successes and material goods and the freedom to say that we are selffish and hateful.
Well sir, let me set you straight. What you say we get for free we have in fact earned. Just so you will undersatnd, let me spell it out for you. E-A-R-N-E-D. You don’t provide it because we are tax payers too. Therefore, what we have earned, we also help pay for. So you need to engage your brain before you refer to use as freeloaders.
In closing, people like you call us right wing extreamist. Let me also enlighten you on what causes right wing extreamism.
People like you!
The liberal left that believes that if they don’t have something, no one on earth should have it. Tom, you had the exact same opportunities that I had but you chose to accumulate material wealth. I definitely don’t have what you have gained over the same time period, but I’m not crying over it and demanding that you give me half of what you have earned either.
You call nationalizing an entire industry, 'compassionate'. If I'm selfish and greedy and un-Christian for opposing the government take-over of an entire industry - then I wear that badge with pride.
You're an evil socialist. I'm an evil Christian. Let's move forward.
Let's go back to 'socialist compassion'. There's just so much evidence of that.
I read an interesting story in the British press a few months ago. It was written by a physician who was fed up with the government run system.
He wrote that one of the many negative effects of government health care is the division it creates between patient and doctor. The patients blame the horrible care they get on the doctors. They insult them and belittle them. Patients frequently use foul language and exhibit rude behavior towards medical staff.
Medical staff on the other hand, are tired of the abuse they receive from patients. So they give even less care than they normally would. (Even the normal level of care is less than most Americans are accustomed to)
Inevitably, there is much conflict.
So Eleanor, guess I can hear well enough to listen to these stories which don't appear in the government run press and you appear to have some hearing problems as well.
Doctor vs. Patient conflict.
Just one of the many perversions that come out of the sick manipulations of the socialist mind.
So when the government take-over of the private health industry is complete, we can just sit back and pay only $40 in gas for our expensive treatments like Tom Rauch is trying to sell you.
Oh happy day! Worker's Paradise!
But wait. I see a time in the near future with our new free lunch program called government health care.
A Senator needs a liver transplant after drinking gallons of expensive taxpayer funded scotch for 25 years. Sadly, no livers can be found through the conventional health channels. But we're talking royalty here aren't we? This is a SENATOR.
So, The Royal Senator does a computer check on his national database of names - you know - everyone's name and their complete medical history will be there for - government use only of course.
His Highness discovers a match for a liver. However, there's a little problem. The donor is still alive. Not to worry. the donor is going to have a car accident soon. Or he may die in a firefight in Afghanistan. Either way, the Senator will have his liver.
No lines. No waiting.
Sound preposterous? Any casual student of government knows this is highly possible.
That's why the Founders of the United States wrote the US Constitution the way they did. They created the Constitution expressly to limit the power of government and increase the power of the people.
What we have today is the exact opposite. The government now dictates to the people and much of the power is now centered in Washington DC. This is exactly what the Founding Fathers were concerned about when they wrote the most progressive document of freedom ever created.
Ask the compassionate socialists on this blog where the Constitution permits the government to force the citizens of America into a government health program.
Go ahead. Ask them.
The public option is only meant to compete with the current system, not take it over. This is no different than the U.S. Postal service competing with UPS or FedEx. Stop the fear mongering.
This is a complete take-over of the health care industry. Just read the the 2000+ page bill. Your Congressperson and Senator certainly didn't. Why don't you? You'll discover it's a socialist government take-over of an entire industry, like so many other Americans have found.
Rationing, abortion, medical decisions made by government committee, doctor pay government controlled, end of life euthanasia promoted and encouraged, taxes raised to fund it -
Where have you been? I guess you only watch network TV to get your information.
This is government take-over of health care. Go read an analysis of the House and Senate Government health care 'Reform' bills.
Here's a link to just one analysis (HR 3200) by a responsible organization:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=1&ved=0CAcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lc.org%2Fmedia%2F9980%2Fattachments%2Fhealthcare_overview_obama_072909.pdf&ei=ajo2S5uUGMuztgen0siYBg&usg=AFQjCNEcS-mOCKKkcCuiNHlEQSJxhbpRrA&sig2=ALX_4XYGB8xcp8ZBwBNhLQ
It's a pdf file you can download, read and criticize as often as you like.
And as much as I love the excellent hard working people at the post office, they are the perfect template for socialist meddling.
They charge 47 cents to deliver a letter. FedEx and UPS charge $15 for the same service. Sure, I love paying 47 cents instead of $15. But the true costs to deliver a letter aren't reflected in the 47 cent cost. So, the post office loses money. And the people at the post office are belittled by the general public.
And since you obviously skipped history and US government in your government school classes, please let me remind you that is was never the intention of our Founding Fathers that government would go into business to compete against private business - for any reason.
Even without much education though, you can't possibly believe that there is any justification in the US Constitution for government competing against business. Plus, government sets taxes, creates regulation, and enforces.
Seems like an unfair advantage to me - how about you?
1. Supporting taxpayer abortion on demand - read the bill HR 3200
2. Your medical decisions made by government committee - read the bill HR 3200
3. Everyone forced into the system even though the US Constitution expressly forbids this massive shift of power to the government. Read the bill HR 3200
Where's your compassion for all the people who are happy with their current health insurance program? They're likely to lose it after the government take-over is completed.
But that's OK. Socialist compassion means taking money and liberty and choice from others to give to the needy voter bloc that supports the Washington elite.
The socialist is working to change all that.
Under the socialist ‘giving’ program, politicians influenced by special interest groups decide who you’ll ‘give’ to. In Massachusetts, the taxpayers support gay activities and gay indoctrination in government schools. Nationwide, taxpayers support a culture of endless, undeclared war. Under government 'health care', taxpayers will support abortion and euthanasia and have little say over their level of care.
You see, socialism removes your control over 'giving' and places it in the hands of politicians. 12% of Americans don’t have a health program. So the socialist is going to ‘give’ them health care with your money.
Isn’t that compassionate?
Loved Jesus
Hated Socialism & Communism
Love,
Bob
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position.
And you were using faux news earlier in a post. No wonder you are reciting all this gloom and doom. Sounds like Glenn Beck to me.
You have too much faith in our current health care system if you think it does not need an overhaul.
Do you resent people who show compassion and tolerance toward others?
Next you will be government forced to purchase life insurance.
When the government run health care system kills you - somebody has to put you in a box and bury you. The average cost is 7K - 10K. The government only provides 255.00. Now to offset government health care, government run life insurance is a must.
It will be deficient neutral because the government will save all those 255.00 payouts and they will prevent the fraud with all the death benefit payout fraud that goes on.
Cap and Trade will charge your survivors a tax on the decomposition gases that you emit or double the cost of cremation to collect as much as possible for the fuels needed to generate the heat required.
It's true that you can't take it with you when you go. And the government has figured a way that you can't give it to anyone except government either.
American Tea Party Required Now.
As if your logic made more sense. You say:
The argument that health care reform will lead to socialized medicine is a "slippery-slope" logical fallacy.
No fallacy here: socialism is socialism. The government take-over of the health industry is a socialist program. It's obvious to nearly everyone who supports it and is opposed to it. Please read the Bludorn's book, 'The Logic Detective'.
You say: Insurance companies have a vested interest in torpedoing health care reform and are spending money to perpetuate this lie.
I have a great idea. We'll use your logic and shut them all down. Make you happy? More jobs lost - more poverty. That's the compassionate gift of socialism.
You say: The public option is only meant to compete with the current system, not take it over. This is no different than the U.S. Postal service competing with UPS or FedEx. Stop the fear mongering.
Socialists believe that when the government competes with business, it's not only fair, but good for America. I say this is good for expanding government control of the masses. And bad for everybody.
If the government can force you to buy health insurance from anybody,(not just the government)
they can force anybody to purchase anything.
There's no limit on the control they have over your life.
And everything that was accomplished there can be done everywhere - in every state.
Teach a man to fish and he'll never need to ask for fish again.
But you know, I have no interest in running for any local office. Thank you for your suggestion though.
And by the way, I agree with you: socialism is crap. And there's plenty of it in the US and right here in Barnesville.
Last but not least - I agree also that socialist schools suck up all the tax dollars leaving nothing for alternative education venues.
Why is that? It reminds me of a infamous Rockefeller quote, "Competition is a sin"
Not concerned?
Consider how the socialist views people. They are like cattle. Resources to be used and manipulated. Socialists don’t worry about people dying. To teach the Ukrainians a lesson in the 1940's (?), the socialist led Soviet Union starved millions to death by simply taking away all their seeds. No seeds - no food. Men, women, and children ate bark off trees to survive.
Distinguished Fellows in the Elite Club of left wingers running America are the environmentalists. They believe that humans are a ‘virus’ on the earth. They firmly believe in population control. Like spaying or neutering your pet, they work for neutering of humans. That’s why those in this group support abortion and the gay lifestyle. It fits their agenda for population reduction.
Now consider all this when you choose to hand your health care over to the socialist US government. The government controls your food, water, and transportation. They control much of your health care now. With the new 2000+ page health ‘choices’ bill, they will have complete control over every aspect of your health care. Just think: the government committee overseeing your health care thinks humans are a virus on the earth and wants population control.
Food - Water- Transportation - Health Care. Complete central planning of every critical aspect of your life. You add it up.
PS: Wait till you see what government motors has planned for cars in the near future. I plan to write about it soon.
The liberals just don't 'get it' for some strange reason.
I can understand that they want everyone to be helped, etc. This would be great *IF* it were done correctly and LEGALLY.
Why can't these people see that the liberals/democrats in office are doing these things illegally, deceitfully, etc?
It's like they are BLIND to what the democrats in office REALLY want to do?
“ For example, you mentioned cars, how many new small pick-up trucks do you see on the market today. None of the major manufactures offers such model because the profit margin per unit does not compare for what they can get for a full size truck or SUV. When manufactures determine the market in lieu of the market demand we all lose the freedom of choice. “
This is just absurd. The car makers simply want to sell cars. If the public wants to purchase small beer can style trucks, the car makers will gladly make them. Profit is profit. What’s wrong is the government stepping in and telling everyone, they HAVE to purchase beer can cars. There’s a big difference here. Manufacturers sell what the people want. Government forces you to take what they give you - whether you like it or not.
Currently, people want big fat gas guzzlers. Don’t blame the manufacturers for supplying what the people demand. I personally don’t understand why anyone would drive a big fat gas guzzler that gets 12 mpg’s but that’s their money and their business.
No one should be able to use the power of government to force their ideology on others - even if they don’t agree. Unfortunately, we have a number of people here who believe in using the government to force their agenda on others. Think health care, gun control, education, social security, eminent domain, property taxes, ad valorem taxes, environmental activism, 5 decades of undeclared unconstitutional wars; the list goes on and on.
You wrote:
“The HC providers / insurers brought it on themselves the need for government intervention. I see an elite club of extreme capitalist with no regard for the American people which is screwing up this country and the government is just now trying to reel in the ability of such institutions to do so much damage all in the name of “Just doing business”. There is no need for government control when companies play fair and now days that’s unheard of.”
The insurance industry does not have clean hands. But what you don’t see is the unseen government regulations on the insurance companies that raises their costs and turns them into willing pawns of an out-of-control federal government. I use the word ‘willing’ because what you really have here is fascism. It’s government control over private business. It’s one big happy family up there in Washington DC.
Hey but you know, you’re right about the elites. They ARE comprised of large multinational corporations, rich entrenched politicians, and White House staff. So why would one elite try to rein in another. It’s kind of like what Jesus said when they accused Him of being Beelzebub. He said a house divided falls. You won’t find the government elite divided over the rich business elite. They work hand in hand and use the mainstream mouthpiece media to run cover for them. The government uses the large multinational companies as giant compliance centers where they control large masses of people. The large multinational corporations use the federal government to stomp out competition by creating new taxes and regulations.
Didn’t you see that when Bush and Obama handed out billions of your hard earned tax dollars to their rich business buddies in the form of bailouts?
“Well-intentioned socialists, if they are honest people as Hayek
contends, should be able to appreciate that reaching into one’s
own pockets to assist one’s fellow man is laudable and praise-
worthy. Reaching into another’s pocket to do so is theft and by
any standard of morality should be condemned.”
Americans are the biggest givers of time, talent, and money in the world. No other country comes close.
Let’s the government out the taking business so we as individuals can get back to the business of giving.
By the way, I have found that most of the southerners I meet are easily as sophisticated and educated as their Northern cousins. But the southerners have better manners.
Rich people are laughing at you.
Look at personal computers for example. You can purchase a computer today for under $500 that is far more powerful than many computers made just 5 years ago. Demand and supply are in balance. If the government was the supplier of computers, regular folks like you and me probably wouldn’t have access to them because the socialists controlling the US government don’t want the masses to have any control over anything. Computers are dangerous in the hands of the people. But if they did make them available to the unwashed masses, they would be in short supply, provide substandard performance, and cost a fortune.
It’s instructive to look at the Soviet socialist car industry. Their cars were garbage and only the privileged elite (the government) owned them.
I’m from Long Island. Small pickup trucks are a dime a dozen up there as are larger pickup trucks. For some reason, trucks are a fortune down here in the South. I looked at a 1984 Chevy pickup ½ ton in Jasper County, that was beat to a pulp. The price: $3500!
Supply and demand are the biggest influences on prices. Socialist government meddling in that equation historically has perverted the supply chain to the extent that either you can’t get the products you demand or they are of such poor quality that you don’t demand them or surprise: they cost too much for the people to afford.
Control over business is simple. Just don’t buy from them for awhile and watch prices come down. Control over government taking your money is impossible. They have guns, armies, and access to your personal bank account. And just wait till they control your health care.
China owns nearly $1 trillion dollars of US debt. If they didn't, our government would go bankrupt. By the way, the 2000+ page government take-over of the health industry is already estimated to cost over $1 trillion dollars. Using history as our guide, you can expect the real cost to be several times that estimate. Good luck America!
Now, who sold the Chinese all the US debt? Could it be those nice, compassionate, rational GOVERNMENT people?
I hope you're laughing too. Because the real joke is on the American people.
I had my own business for 17 years. The number one threat to my business was the US government. Today, I wouldn't think of starting a company with employees in the US because the government spends much of your tax dollars working against private business.
Most informed businesspeople today are looking at businesses that don't require many or any employees. This is how they stay under government radar.
How much did you pay for private health care while self employed? Did you feel that the price was fair and competative with the rates that others receive?
How successful do you feel you would have been if you were attempting to start a business in a country other than America?
Let’s get the government out of the taking business so we as individuals can get back to the business of giving.
OK- so 2 wrongs make a right?
"How much did you pay for private health care while self employed?"
$496 per month for a family plan
"Did you feel that the price was fair and competative with the rates that others receive?"
Yes
"How successful do you feel you would have been if you were attempting to start a business in a country other than America?"
10 or more years ago - much more successful here. Today - less successful and it's getting worse everyday.
The Federal Register is over 100,000 pages of rules and regulations. Wow! That's perfect for huge global companies that can afford to pay for employees to babysit government compliance. Not so good for small business.
Hate to say it, but it actually may be easier to do business in communist China than in the United States. This is shameful.
We should make a new start in 2010. Get rid of the Demublicans and the Republicrats.